tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post3316108875147914815..comments2024-03-15T19:59:22.975-05:00Comments on DISMYTHED: Is Shunning a Violation of Human Rights?Dismythedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-44346992584158020902019-04-12T10:44:25.968-05:002019-04-12T10:44:25.968-05:00I agree with the above. And said a different way, ...I agree with the above. And said a different way, deeming shunning a violation of human rights, is forcing Jehovah's Witnesses to retain as members those who on longer qualify to remain members, thus, violating THEIR rights to decide their membership.<br /><br />This aptly demonstrates the inconsistency of critics. Robert Murpheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-80897235299941993472019-04-12T10:39:24.363-05:002019-04-12T10:39:24.363-05:00Allow me to emphasize one point: We do not force a...Allow me to emphasize one point: We do not force anyone to believe or not believe or practice or not practice their faith in any way they choose. Disfellowshipping simply affects communication, and nothing in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says that everyone has the right to give or receive communication from or to whomever they choose. To do so would interfere with the rights of others to be at peace from unwanted communication or right to withhold communication.Opposers Dismythed / JW Advisorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01497322949880289903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-897977048091516582019-04-12T10:24:57.206-05:002019-04-12T10:24:57.206-05:00Your statement highlights a contradiction. You say...Your statement highlights a contradiction. You say that families do not have a choice, but then demonstrate them exercising their choice to continue to associate with the person instead of remaining true to Jehovah. That is a choice and no one makes any effort to prevent them, but they have to accept that they are putting their membership status and their ability to communicate freely with other members at risk.<br /><br />"Coersion" under the Declaration of Human Rights clearly refers to a threat of bodily, financial or other demonstrable harm. Disfellowshipping is merely a peaceful way of removing the former member's ability to associate with other members, except under certain necessary situations, such as cettain family obligations or business dealings. (We do not preclude members from doing business with disfellowshipped persons or believing as they want to believe or practice their religion as they choose to practice it.)<br /><br />One member in my congreggation continues to communicate with his two disfellowshipped sons both because he employs them and because he is helping them as long as they seek to return to the organization. The elders allow it because it is acceptable circumstances. He just never associates with them through casual conversation.<br /><br />Also, it does not matter what anyone thinks or any man-made law says. It is in the Scriptures, and we obey God over men.Opposers Dismythed / JW Advisorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01497322949880289903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-53061875858135346892019-04-12T01:37:40.754-05:002019-04-12T01:37:40.754-05:00I think shunning is a despicable practice. The 7n...I think shunning is a despicable practice. The 7n8versal Declaration of Human Rights states that a person has the right to change their religion without coercion. The threat of being cut off by family members is powerfully coercive. One is coerced into remaining a JW even when they no longer believe. Also, the Declaration protects the rights to family relationships without outside interference. The fact that many JWs conti use association with disfellowshipped family members in secret shows it is not their choice to shun, but an organisational mandate.RACHELhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00120925737943476923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-58397663819150336452019-04-05T19:58:57.779-05:002019-04-05T19:58:57.779-05:00There are also groups that harass and hire private...There are also groups that harass and hire private investigators to stalk and spy on former members. That also makes THAT form of shunning involuntary, and abusive.<br /><br />Opposers love to claim that how we shun is abusive. But how so? Elders do not harasses you, police you, stalk you, or anything like that. And the person can still attend meetings if they so choose. Of course, no one unnecessarily associates with them, but leaving a person alone is the furthest thing from abuse.Robert Murpheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-64144701449013039842019-01-28T08:41:16.367-06:002019-01-28T08:41:16.367-06:00Following rules and belonging to any organization ...Following rules and belonging to any organization is also voluntary unless done so under threat of physical or environmental harm to that person or someone they care about. That is why the form of shunning we practice is completely voluntary. A person who wishes to be a member can either follow the rule or cease to be a member. That is a choice.Opposers Dismythed / JW Advisorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01497322949880289903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-71140805324212375122019-01-28T06:30:16.621-06:002019-01-28T06:30:16.621-06:00Okay. I have heard a few things about this issue. ...Okay. I have heard a few things about this issue. The folks I heard seemed to be more interested in whether the shunning was encouraged/done under some form of compulsion or done so voluntarily on an individual basis. <br /><br />Voluntary shunning is for sure an everyday thing.<br /><br />Human rights is also a hot topic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-20311049672348272812019-01-28T04:44:31.114-06:002019-01-28T04:44:31.114-06:00Well now you do. :) The accusation occasionally ar...Well now you do. :) The accusation occasionally arises. The shunning issue is a pet project for the author of this post.Opposers Dismythed / JW Advisorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01497322949880289903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-43105360560103581292019-01-27T23:41:33.942-06:002019-01-27T23:41:33.942-06:00This is a very interesting question as is "Ho...This is a very interesting question as is "How common is shunning?" Is this a common concern? Or I should ask rather, do many people ask these questions?<br /><br />Excuse my ignorance, I don't know much about the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-50167443459665031692018-02-15T10:04:09.207-06:002018-02-15T10:04:09.207-06:00Maybe I should clarify. "Name-calling" i...Maybe I should clarify. "Name-calling" is not the same as labeling. We label many concepts good and bad. So calling someone an "apostate" is not "name-calling" because it accurately describes the practice that such persons engage in. But to call someone an "idiot" is name-calling because it is a disparaging comment meant solely to illicit an emotional reaction.<br /><br />But did you know that Jesus called others names? At Matthew 23:33 he called the Pharisees "Serpents, offspring of vipers", and also at Matthew 12:34. But note that this was a judgment by one who had the authority, identifying them as Satan's children, just as at John 8:44. So in a spiritual sense, it was accurate. It was not some untrue disparagement.<br /><br />While some of our number had developed the habit in the 60's and 70's of calling people "goats" because they were turned away, the organization outspokenly put an end to it because it was a judgment that such ones had no authority to make. As an organization, we do not practice such things. We cannot be blamed for what select individuals choose to do.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-76245174977015572042018-02-03T06:49:19.889-06:002018-02-03T06:49:19.889-06:00I would be keenly interested in so-called "st...I would be keenly interested in so-called "studiies" regarding shunning that focus strictly on not associating with shunned persons, and not poisoned by the wells of kicking out under-aged children, physical asssaults or blacklisting businesses. (Given that JW's do not condone such things, contrary to the claims of our lying apostates.)Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-81641693341661802922018-02-03T04:39:10.825-06:002018-02-03T04:39:10.825-06:00Contrary to some claims, we do not kick children o...Contrary to some claims, we do not kick children out of the house for having been shunned by the congregation. We even inform families and congregation overseers that such is to be discouraged. We do not blacklist businesses or do anything to interfere with their operation, nor refuse business to shunned ones. We are certainly not violent towards them.<br /><br />We do not claim that shunning is not discrimination, but, it is not based on religion, race or creed. It is a Bible-based practice that was introduced in the first century for keeping the congregation spiritually clean from corrupting influences. (1Co 5:11; 2Jo 10) We do not shun anyone because they believe differently, thus it cannot be identified as religious discrimination.<br /><br />Shunning is necessary because ones who have left often attempt to corrupt members with lies and have even posed physical threats to them. We have a right to live free from such hatred. Though we do not officially shun people from other religions who persecute us in the same way because we recognize that they have simply been misled by lying propaganda and should not be prevented from an opportunity to learn the truth. Though we may choose to avoid such ones personally as long as they are a physical danger.<br /><br />It is true that shunning can have unintended adverse effects, but those effects are not one-sided. If it hurts the betrayer to be shunned, it also hurts the betrayed to have to shun them for the safety of their family and congregation. Does not punishing a child also hurt the parent who punishes them? Shunning is not easy for anyone, but it is necessary.<br /><br />We invite readees to watch this video: <a href="http://dismythed.blogspot.com/2017/09/jws-understood-how-common-is-shunning.html" rel="nofollow">JWs Understood: How Common Is Shunning?</a> We hope you find it informative. We seek only to help ones like you to gain some perspective on such issues.<br /><br />The severest consequences associated with shunning do not occur in a vacuum. Those effects are the result of ones failing to maximize their survival tactics. When one is shunned from one social group, they must seek out another. Even lions and apes do that much. If someone does not return to us and does not seek out a new social group and rebuild their support system, their own lack of effort cannot be blamed on us. Each person is responsible for his or her own choices. Lack of accountability is usually the reason they are shunned in the first place, failing to own up to and accept their own responsibility in what they practice. Someone who is accountable takes control of their own life and guides it towards maximizing their happiness even in difficult circumstances.<br /><br />Some like to make it sound like we are trying to get benefit from the organization with this blog, but if we do not identify ourselves, how are we possibly currying favor with anyone? We post these things to help ones who have been deceived by anti-JW propaganda and because it brings us satisfaction to help such ones.<br /><br />Name-calling may provide a temporary dopamine high, but in the end, what does it accomplish? Does it inspire anyone to listen to the person's claims? Would a child be inspired to love them more by treating those they love with contempt? Only the individual can change the narrative of their own life. Bashing others for his or her own choices will not bring him or her more positive results.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-59105275445651146982017-04-30T17:40:50.323-05:002017-04-30T17:40:50.323-05:00Thank you, Lucian!Thank you, Lucian!Opposers Dismythednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-24974838332529918282017-04-25T00:01:40.120-05:002017-04-25T00:01:40.120-05:00This is perfect and so timely.. Thank you for this...This is perfect and so timely.. Thank you for this is explanation. Just the other day someone posed a questions asking me if children shun their parents are they not breaking the command to honor their parents, so this helps to reason on it Luhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02720672730932522583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-84293559955733781072017-04-21T16:57:49.796-05:002017-04-21T16:57:49.796-05:00Thank you, and you're welcome!Thank you, and you're welcome!Opposers Dismythednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-61617794886448752392017-04-21T13:59:20.537-05:002017-04-21T13:59:20.537-05:00very good reasoning. tnxvery good reasoning. tnxDalmatinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13082980742973376559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-31223616039786368682017-04-20T22:05:50.733-05:002017-04-20T22:05:50.733-05:00I really like this article because it takes a crit...I really like this article because it takes a critical look at the claim of "human rights" violations. <br /><br />The issue in my eyes is that they are never specific about what human right is violated. The argument is framed in such a way that even sending a criminal to jail is a "violation" of his human rights because it costs him his job, hurts his job prospects, and separates him from his family...<br /><br />Oh but wait...they don't see that as a human rights violation...<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.com