tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post1995474638448671889..comments2024-03-15T19:59:22.975-05:00Comments on DISMYTHED: Flip-side News: The Problems that Remain in Delaware's Mandatory Reporting LawDismythedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-56853167783456620192016-04-06T22:07:54.287-05:002016-04-06T22:07:54.287-05:00Well, its commendable that you're seeking answ...Well, its commendable that you're seeking answers.<br /><br />Of course, its understandable that news reports would disturb you, as that's the reason why apostates rely on them. They influence those reports in an effort to deceive people.<br /><br />Fact is, we want you asking questions about how we handle child abuse so we can answer them. Apostates and opposers don't want you asking us.<br /><br />That should tell you who wishes to hide things as well.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-45900032956208947462016-04-06T21:22:55.216-05:002016-04-06T21:22:55.216-05:00News reports rely primarily on our apostates or ar...News reports rely primarily on our apostates or are by our apostates, and our apostates are notorious liars and exaggerators. So anything you read that is not from the organization is likely to be twisted beyond recognition and spun so as to implant into the reader's mind what they're supposed to think about information instead of simply presenting the information and letting the reader make up their own mind. If you want to know what the organization's policies are, then look to the organization, not people who have chosen to oppose us.<br /><br />Just leave your email here and I won't approve the comment. I'll contact you.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-28342037587392531362016-04-06T19:30:58.402-05:002016-04-06T19:30:58.402-05:00Hello, I want to make clear that I am not an oppos...Hello, I want to make clear that I am not an opposer, I am a student of the Bible, but these Questions About pedophilia HAS left me on the back foot for the organization. I seek answers, but in Brazil there are no sites or siblings with enough information to enlighten me on this subject , so I have to resort to websites in other languages. <br /><br />Do you own any e-mail so I can contact to take some questions on this subject ?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-18806186204819096942016-04-05T21:27:48.816-05:002016-04-05T21:27:48.816-05:00CJ pretty much covered it. "Hiding" some...CJ pretty much covered it. "Hiding" something would be directives from the organization telling victims not to report. By them being free to do so without reprisal basically shoots that down.<br /><br />I mean, if victims are free to report without congregation sactions, how can the organization be hiding anything? <br /><br />This is the question you need to consider. <br /><br /> <br />Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-39369054527375495882016-04-05T17:01:37.045-05:002016-04-05T17:01:37.045-05:00"Hidden" indicates intent to hide. "..."Hidden" indicates intent to hide. "Not reporting" is not the same as "hiding". I already covered why they didn't report above. Australia has no mandatory reporting laws. Individuals involved with the cases are free to report if they choose. The organization has only 2 obligations: 1) Tend to the spiritual welfare of those involved with the case on both sides in line with the Scriptures, and 2) fulfill the letter of the law of the land as long as it does not conflict with God's word. If Australia wants to get us to report as an organization, they will have to make laws doing it, without all the glaring holes in Delaware's laws, and then we will comply. We are not a policing agency, but a religious organization that tends to spiritual things.<br /><br />You should review my Flip-side News post, "<a href="http://dismythed.blogspot.com/2016/01/response-to-royal-commission-of.html" rel="nofollow">Response to the Royal Commission of Australia</a>"Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-57099326858291841532016-04-05T16:40:12.827-05:002016-04-05T16:40:12.827-05:00Hi , I'm from Brazil and seeking answers. My q...Hi , I'm from Brazil and seeking answers. My question is simple. If the elders are not told not to report cases to the authorities , so why that 1006 cases were hidden in Australia?<br /><br />ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-41594453248555401162016-04-01T22:39:15.369-05:002016-04-01T22:39:15.369-05:00I thought I made that clear, but I see now that I ...I thought I made that clear, but I see now that I didn't specify "language" in that part. It has been corrected now. A previous case already overturned the narrow language (And yes, the courts had attempted to use that narrow language to apply only to the Catholics,) so that now it must be interpreted to apply to any religion with a confessional arrangement, but it did not apply by default because the language was originally strictly Catholic.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-3020591607426201392016-04-01T22:17:16.705-05:002016-04-01T22:17:16.705-05:00I have an aunt who is a Witness who has taken me t...I have an aunt who is a Witness who has taken me to a couple of meetings. I stumbled onto this site while doing some research on another one. Interesting article to say the least, even if I am not sure of all the details you defend.<br /><br />While I cannot speak about the particulars regarding the above case, I do know that a slight misunderstanding regarding "sacramental confession" has been made in your article. It might help clear something up for you if I mention this, so I will be brief.<br /><br />"Sacramental confession" privilege does not refer to merely the Catholic sacrament of Reconciliation between a literal Catholic priest and someone confessing their sins (known as the penitent in this rite). Instead the privilege is extended to any religious situation, Catholic or Protestant, Christian or otherwise where a subject freely confesses their actions to a minister, disclosing an act for sole purpose of having it mercifully dismissed.<br /><br />For the privilege to be extended the confessing person must be required to disclose what is otherwise private information due to the fact that the subject matter would be incapable of being treated as the focus for the forgiveness that is being sought by the penitent. <br /><br />While it is true that the way the law is written uses language that seems to be limited to what many view as a Roman Catholic rite, in reality this sacrament is practiced in many other churches, including some Lutheran ones. Even when the confession is not considered "sacramental," the privilege only exists when there is a penitent or freely confessing subject. One who does not confess freely is not a penitent.<br /><br />It should also be mentioned that regardless of such a situation of lawfully recognized "privilege," that the State can still demand the seal of confession be broken, even in regard to a Catholic sacramental confession, if the confessed actions involve a crime that could not be justly dealt with otherwise or may still be victimizing others and thus breaking the law. Ministers of various religions, including Catholic priests, have at times chosen to be found in contempt of court in a situation when this demand might be incorrectly applied, but in many similar situations sacramental "forgiveness" has been withheld by the minister from the penitent until they performed an act of penance which included turning themselves in to proper authority.<br /><br />The privilege was not extended in this case because there was neither a freely acting penitent or proof of a "religious act of penance." Excommunication after a confession can at times immediately disqualifiy an act of confession for privilege sake becomes the freedom of the penitent is not present where an organization demands or requires members to confess in order to rid their ranks of certain individuals who engage in certain behaviors. The confessing subject did not disclose a secret for the sole purpose of being freed from their sin in mercy but had to as part of organizational demands. A Richmondnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-57175343135268906542016-03-19T16:47:52.724-05:002016-03-19T16:47:52.724-05:00Yeah, and many would criticize us for using "...Yeah, and many would criticize us for using "satan's system" while advocating that we institute mandatory reporting laws thus using "satan's system".<br /><br />Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-22882783043425603732016-03-16T08:30:50.315-05:002016-03-16T08:30:50.315-05:00By the way, I said the Watching the World piece wa...By the way, I said the Watching the World piece was in a Watchtower in the eighties, but I meant an Awake! magazine and was actually in the December 8, 2004 Awake!Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-51082065611528370812016-03-16T07:59:32.756-05:002016-03-16T07:59:32.756-05:00Note what we wrote in 1962:
"Hence the Chris...Note what we wrote in 1962:<br /><br />"Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth. The congregation must release such guilty members to punishment by worldly authorities. Since the guilty break the laws of the land and thus oppose the “authority,” they are taking a stand against God’s arrangement."<br /><br />The Watchtower, November 15, 1962 p693, paragraph 9.<br />Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-59740916861870166462016-03-16T07:35:48.004-05:002016-03-16T07:35:48.004-05:00Robert: I updated the section about confession wit...Robert: I updated the section about confession with the information you brought to my attention in email. Thanks for that.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-9854778969115608122016-03-16T07:27:33.057-05:002016-03-16T07:27:33.057-05:00Yes, in a state without mandatory reporting, that ...Yes, in a state without mandatory reporting, that is precisely the question that needs asking. For all the instruction we give in the publications, we do not ask parents to not go to authorities and the elders are specifically told not to instruct parents not to go to the police. In fact, in a Watching the World blurb in a Watchtower from the 80's, I discovered that it did indeed recommend calling the police in a matter of child molestation.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-83333187752431118082016-03-16T07:22:13.692-05:002016-03-16T07:22:13.692-05:00Yep. "Why plug the holes when all accusations...Yep. "Why plug the holes when all accusations are reported anyway?". This reasoning could follow.<br /><br />You know the question I am asking now when someone brings the issues of elders reporting?<br /><br />"Where are the parents?"<br /><br /><br /><br />Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-41871079471062847572016-03-16T06:59:28.506-05:002016-03-16T06:59:28.506-05:00Or, rather, it would relieve the various states of...Or, rather, it would relieve the various states of their responsibility to secure and develop the law.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-9360012543635951512016-03-16T00:51:45.118-05:002016-03-16T00:51:45.118-05:00This is an example of why the laws need to be clea...This is an example of why the laws need to be clear.<br /><br />However, one could argue that in order to protect the congregation and avoid needless litigation, just report any accusations that make the ears of the elders, period, no matter if they can be substantiated or not.<br /><br />This sounds logical, but it really isn't.<br /><br />Simply put, the Elders would not be doing their jobs. They would effectively offload their responsibility to protect the congregation onto the secular government in their state.<br /><br />This would be unacceptable. Robert Murpheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-37348673260536387132016-03-15T22:32:11.193-05:002016-03-15T22:32:11.193-05:00I'd like to also note that all the reports cal...I'd like to also note that all the reports call the incident a "relationship", so it was not technically child molestation. It was a matter of a teacher and someone who, morally and religiously, should know better. There is no question as to her guilt, but the "victim" does not appear to feel victimized. Also, apparently the boy and his mother were apparently members of the congregation. So, all said, I think this is a cut and dried case and there is only one point of blame being not reporting the incident, but they have done nothing to hide the matter or protect the defendant. They have only sought to defended themselves against the fine and I doubt they're going to fight it further.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-68177663513177115032016-03-15T21:18:08.656-05:002016-03-15T21:18:08.656-05:00Alright, after analysis of the report, the Catholi...Alright, after analysis of the report, the Catholic-centric bias is not being held due to an earlier case in the eighties which already highlighted the unconstitutionality of that part of the law.<br /><br />The case held because of the fact that the defendant admitted to the affair, but the congregation did not report that admission.<br /><br />The list was not asked for, so the first point is not coming into question at this time. And "good faith" did not apply given that the defendant admitted. So there was no abuse of that part of the law in this case.<br /><br />Ultimately, I doubt the organization will appeal any further. There would just be no point to it. It is already a low fine to pay and there really would be just no way to win, given the circumstances.<br /><br />This post was about the errors in the law that need correction, not about whether the organization is justified in fighting the particular case that prompted it.<br /><br />That congregation was indeed wrong for not reporting it according to the law. But I should remind people that the congregation got its direction from the organization's lawyers, not from the governing body. So don't even try to claim some conspiracy. Lawyers do what lawyers do and they make mistakes just as the elders do. The lawyers don't give direction by committee. That's assuming the lawyers went through the proper channels and followed the direction they were given.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-75430888757364116812016-03-15T20:51:00.088-05:002016-03-15T20:51:00.088-05:00I actually found an unbiased report on the case th...I actually found an unbiased report on the case that prompted this post. So I'm going to study it more closely. I think the lawyers may actually have missed something.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-38085109556616671202016-03-15T20:09:37.252-05:002016-03-15T20:09:37.252-05:00A lawyer wouldn't be worth their salt if they ...A lawyer wouldn't be worth their salt if they couldn't find those simple flaws. However, it comes down to convincing a judge to conform to the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law. It's easier to get an appellate judge to follow the letter of the law than a trial judge because it is the appellate judge's job to focus on the letter of the law.Dismythedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872186295008632240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-413969216273696296.post-27844672074380686512016-03-15T16:38:41.162-05:002016-03-15T16:38:41.162-05:00CJ,
Is this something our lawyers would catch and...CJ,<br /><br />Is this something our lawyers would catch and bring to the lawmaker's attention?<br /><br />Bringing these holes to their attention can go a long way in debunking the lies that we don't want to comply.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222067990028193076noreply@blogger.com